Read it HERE!!!
Support the comic on PATREON!
Contains minor blood/violence.
Here starts Chapter 1, and the comic as a whole!
Read it HERE!!!
Support the comic on PATREON!
Contains minor blood/violence.
Here starts Chapter 1, and the comic as a whole!
ashfur is an interesting character and unique for warriors villain though that’s why people like him. everyone knows he’s a piece of shit jfc
But what was interesting about him? What was unique? Revenge is not a new, unique thing in the Warriors series - literally every major villain in the series wanted some form of revenge.
His jealousy? Was that the unique, interesting thing? Mapleshade was jealous - her jealousy and anger at Crookedstar’s family was what drove her to do what she did.
Was it that he betrayed someone who thought they could trust him? Hawkfrost did that. Tigerstar did that.
Was it that he felt no loyalty for his Clan? Well, pretty much any Clanborn villain can attest to that.
Was it that he was an asshole? Crowfeather had that covered. Heck, Thornclaw and Dustpelt have that covered, and they’re not even villains.
The only different thing about Ashfur was that he got a free pass into StarClan all because well, kids, when you love someone too much you’re OK to try and murder their family so long as you loved them.
Tell me about these interesting traits of Ashfur’s that people have miraculously discovered hidden within the subtext of books that hardly have any subtext to begin with.
ashfur is unique because of how he did everything behind the scenes, and was never exposed to the clans, which was really smart of him. he is also not driven by power, unlike most of these cats with the exception of mapleshade, who was introduced after ashfur anyway. he’s interesting because nobody would have thought he would have done what he did, but in the end we all felt we should have seen it coming, as his obsession with squirrelflight being his primary motivation was also an interesting factor as it twisted such a bright, eager, and happy young warrior into a murderer. his entire arc is very interesting even if he is a piece of shit.
Hawkfrost’s plans were behind the scenes, too - as were Mudclaw’s. Though it was no secret that he was mad at Onewhisker being appointed leader he did still make the deal with Hawkfrost. Onewhisker only expected WindClan to go against him, not RiverClan or ShadowClan.
Ashfur didn’t do much behind the scenes but lure Firestar into a trap. His attacking Lionblaze was rather out in the open, and it was clear that he was letting his aggression at Squirrelflight out on her “son”.
By the time the fire scene came up he was fed up with hiding his emotions, fed up with skulking about in the shadows about it. He was going to shout it from the Great Oak that Squirrelflight wasn’t the Three’s mother, if only to ruin her reputation - something he would have done had he known at any other point prior.
His affections for Squirrelflight, and the fact that they broke up, weren’t secret - the only secret thing was that he was still upset. Which… he was mad about? He hid his feelings and got angry when no one noticed that he was deliberately hiding his feelings?
He is a piece of shit, and he represents a very shitty, dangerous stereotype. But a good villain? That he was not. A good villain as a unique motivation - not something as tired as “boo hoo she doesn’t love me”.
Most villains plans are behind the scenes, but Ashfur’s were even more well-hidden. Yeah, Hawkfrost’s were too, but even then cats were also very suspicious of him throughout the entire arc. I don’t particularly like NP very much and I’ve only read it once, but I do remember that. Also, if I remember correctly, Hawkfrost was exposed publicly to backing Mudclaw and covered it up with some smooth talking.
Mudclaw was basically set up as a problem child since his introduction in the first arc. It was only a matter of time before he got overly pissed and stage a revolution or something. He was just a pawn that was easily manipulated. And not exactly a villain either as he really did what the cats should do to enforce the warrior code.
Ashfur didn’t attack Lionblaze - Lionblaze wanted to train with him again and both cats got carried away in the fight, and both cats were fighting with claws unsheathed. While its mentioned in passing a few times that Ashfur and Lionpaw never really got along as well as mentor and apprentice should, Ashfur very rarely shows any public resentment to the siblings. Enough that if the reader pays attention they can pick out that something’s off, but its nothing suspicious to anyone, including the Clan. Like its enough that it calls back to the last series but nothing suggesting he’s that crazy. In the Clans’ eyes he is a courageous and loyal warrior, which we learn is a facade. This is an interesting aspect of his character that he can hide it so well.
I’m guessing you’re alluding to “I don’t understand how any of you failed to see the blood.” At this point Ashfur has lost most of his sense as he’s ranting about God knows what to Squirrelflight. Confronting Squirrelflight about it likely destroyed the remains of his grip on reality and he was determined to ruin her no matter what it took. At this point I doubt he truly cared about hiding it anymore as he was too far gone.
Again, Ashfur’s fault and path to madness was his insane obsession with Squirrelflight. Its not the “boo hoo she doesn’t love me” its the unhealthy fantasy he’s implied to have created with her in it. That is his entire motivation for the attempted murder of Firestar, Jayfeather, Lionblaze, and Hollyleaf. Its not power or ambition, or following those on that path, which is super rare for a Warriors villain. Even Mapleshade, who we don’t even know what her story even is in full anyway, was on the way to becoming deputy before things fell apart. Though, its important to note that she came after Ashfur. Ashfur’s motivation is simply unique for a Warriors villain. Maybe not in general throughout all of fiction but for a series who’s main formula for villain is “evil even as a kit and really wants to take over the Clans” it’s a twist.
Obviously, Ashfur is trash but that doesn’t necessarily mean his motivation and psychology aren’t interesting, at least to some people. Heck the fact that he enacts such a strong reaction from the fandom, both positive and negative, is interesting in itself.
I seem to have fallen a little ill these past few days, so forgive me if my responses don’t seem very… focused. I tend to ramble when I’m tired so some of what I say might not make much sense.
I remember the Ashfur/Lionblaze scene a little differently… I recall them beginning with claws sheathed, but suddenly Lionblaze has a scratch and Ashfur is taunting him, and so the fight ensued.
I think, after a point, he got rid of that fantasy, though. I mean, he had to have realized that Squirrelflight wasn’t ever going to leave Brambleclaw. That they were going to be together. His fantastical world might have had him and Squirrelflight as mates, but at some point that reality had to shatter… I think it might have happened a while before the fire scene, though.
See, I enjoy going over stuff like this - not an argument, but an actual genuine conversation about a character’s traits, motivations, and just overall character-ness. I like picking apart a character’s psychosis, and Ashfur does have some interesting motivations.
The thing that pisses most people off about Ashfur is the fact that this “Nice Guy” character got rewarded with a get-out-of-jail-free card and a passing comment that laid the blame mostly at Squirrelflight’s feet, not Ashfur’s. He killed Firestar once, and attempted to murder three others - possibly four; who knows what he would have done with Squirrelflight afterward? I mean, cats can go to the Dark Forest for sniffing in the wrong direction but Ashfur gets a free pass past the pearly gates? (I will admit it’s a small headcanon of mine that Ashfur had some involvement with the Dark Forest - maybe not Tigerstar - but someone who could have pushed him farther)
Another problem I have is that we don’t know any of this stuff for sure. It’s all just speculation - which is fine; but until we have confirmed, written proof as to what Ashfur had going on in his head, we won’t know whether we were right or wrong.
I get the feeling we won’t get it though. Might be deemed “inappropriate” for kids.
Yeah see, that was my point! I’ve always thought Ashfur was interesting because of the motivation behind his actions and how his mind likely worked. That’s why I like him as a character. And same, I love analyzing characters and sharing theories when it doesn’t end up becoming personal.
I don’t agree with him going to StarClan - I genuinely hoped that he’d end up in the Dark Forest, for the sake of keeping him around as a villain if nothing else - but I think its probably possible because of how the Clan never knew about it, so he ended up where most cats thought he would. I think also Yellowfang says something about even he attempted murder he never actually killed anyone? So maybe that’s part of StarClan’s rules?
And more than likely he probably would have killed Squirrelflight after killing the siblings, or he would have found a way to frame Squirrelflight and go after Leafpool, Sandstorm, or Brambleclaw next. Probably the former because although most of the time he was pretty smart and quiet about it, I don’t think he ever truly planned to expose himself, and then the opportunity came in the form of that fire, which he went after without second thought. And I doubt he ever let up on his obsession with being with Squirrelflight, otherwise he probably wouldn’t have done what he did. Idk though like you said its all speculation.
Also, I think the blame ending up at Squirrelflight’s feet in both the fandom and the books is due to the POV being that of the cats most negatively affected by it. While Jay, Lion, and Holly all hated Ashfur as well as Squirrelflight, their dislike and mistrust of Squirrelflight went on for a long time after Ashfur was out of the picture. Like its all Ashfur’s fault that he did what he did, but the three being angry at Squirrelflight so much probably influences it a lot.
Unfortunately, I tend to not like Ashfur as a character. But that’s me, and you’re you - you recognize that Ashfur has flaws, and that’s great.
StarClan’s rules seem to change all the damn time. The cats who ended up in the Dark Forest are the ones who felt no loyalty towards their Clan anymore - their loyalty was to themselves and their ambitions.
Ashfur outright stated he had “no more loyalty to ThunderClan left” during the fire scene where he was, you know, attempting to murder two warriors and a medicine cat.
StarClan done fucked up.
Ashfur would have made a great Dark Forest villain. We could have had a scene in the end where he tries his hardest to get at Squirrelflight one last time, and Lionblaze swoops in to protect her and we get their moment of “I forgive you”. Or, Squirrelflight could just defend herself and kill his ass again. Probably both. That would have been great. Maybe some affirmation that what Ashfur did was not an OK thing to do?
Most of the animosity towards Squirrelflight started before the Three, though - in fact, it started with her very first appearance. Squirrelflight’s attitude as an apprentice was grating - yeah, because it was meant to be. She’s an apprentice - a child. A padawan learner. Children can sometimes be know-it-all and annoying - my nephew can attest to this!
But she grew up. A lot.
There are still traces of that know-it-all apprentice there, but otherwise she’s grown out of her annoying nature thanks to the journey and Brambleclaw’s influence. She became a loyal, great warrior, and a good mother - and she got freakin’ smart, too.
A lot of people refused to see outside of the bratty, know-it-all apprentice and ignored her development so that whenever Squirrelflight opens her mouth all they seem to hear is chalkboard-screeching noises. Like they do with Daisy, Ferncloud, and other awesome (female) characters.
Ugh… and now that I’m thinking of it, I want that above scene more and more.
This has been a public service announcement
How about you go fuck yourself and let people enjoy what they want.
Tough guy hiding behind a screen. Lolz. Tollz feeding trollz. Good job bruh. You make fun of people to feel better about yourself. Thank you for helping set back humanity a few years. Grow the fuck up and get a job. Oh wait, wasn’t that your advice?
I’m enjoying feeding this troll. Let’s see how high his standing is on a social media site because people ‘like’ his posts.
look……this sfm is done we can watch it in its full glory
shit demo we cant take you anywhere
I think it’s time for this to start making the rounds again.
Pinkie Pie givin’ the old razzle-dazzle.
As much as I feel like I’m going to loathe the fact that WoD is going to be nothing but orcs, orcs; big, green-or-brown MANLY MAN ORCS WITH WAH-WAH SAD BACKSTORIES… It’s still going to be the first expansion I’ll be part of from start to finish.
I first started playing WoW sometime during Wrath, but I only had up to BC and I didn’t know what I was doing. Eventually we couldn’t afford to play anymore.
It’s only because of Scotty that I was capable of getting back into WoW again, sometime just before Vol’jin’s Rebellion in MoP. He taught me how to play, got me invested in the game, got me interested and wanting more. He told me stories about his exploits, how he raided and ran a world-first guild and all the crazy shit they did. It got me pumped - excited - thinking that maybe I could do something cool like that.
So hey… I suppose it’ll have that charm for me.